have a call. You can get a lot out there and then sometimes you realize you know what, I thought Randy gave me a weird look the other day. Oh, no, he stubbed his toe on the wall as he came in. He wasn't even looking at you. So, just having some of that conversation just mitigates so much turmoil.
Randy Wilburn [29:48] You're exactly right. And actually, it is about having really good positive communication and having individuals that are strong active listeners in your organization. I can always tell a successful design firm by virtue of those that don't struggle in the area of active listening. Not that we're all perfect in that area, but to me, it's an ongoing thing, right? I mean, my wife, if you ask her, she'll say I'm not the best listener but it's something that I'm constantly working on. I take the Kaizen approach to active listening, where I'm just consistently trying to improve in that area. But I have seen the firm leadership that operates and they are strong, active listeners that trickle down to the other people on the team because when people that are subordinate to you know that you actually are listening to what they have to share and say and that you actually care about it. It speaks volumes to them, and they typically will fight fire. They will do anything to help you achieve the objectives that you're trying to achieve on a larger scale for the company. David Shove-Brown [30:55] We've all been with those people and you can tell they're not listening to a thing you're saying because their brain is already processing the next question. I could light myself on fire right now and you wouldn't even notice so we need to do it again. We did improv with our team. And, improv is nothing but listening. It's not about being funny. It's about reacting to what someone says. You can't sit there and go, I can't wait to deliver this next joke, and by the time that it gets to you that moment has passed. So now your joke is out of context, the funny thing you were going to say has no relationship to where the conversation is gone. So that whole idea of improv is about listening and responding to what's being said and done. So, yes, we can go into a meeting with a list of questions but it's terrible when somebody goes, oh, how many bedrooms are you thinking? And then they go, well, we really like bedrooms but for us, it's about our living space. And you go, how many bathrooms are you thinking? No, like, go back to that thing. Let them go and let it evolve and you'll figure out how many bathrooms they need. But let them talk about the life that they live and talk about the concept for their restaurant, and what that experience is like. Let it be organic and not so regimented. Randy Wilburn [32:19] It's almost like taking Simon's cynics focus to start with why. Why is somebody wanting to design something in the first place, right? You gain that
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