higher valuation, but you're not able to offer a contingent payment for achieving those numbers, then you're not going to achieve the highest value, perhaps by selling. You really have to, I guess, couple, where you are in your own kind of energy space, with how long of an off-ramp you're going to need to achieve the numbers that you're looking for. There are a lot of companies that are better served by an internal ownership transition than an external one for various cultural reasons. I mean, just for all kinds of other reasons too. But I think a lot of sellers are a bit naive with how quickly they'll actually be able to remove themselves from the business. And even if you've got your head on straight with that topic, once you start presenting numbers about the future and started talking about that, that kind of can change the conversation a little bit. And I guess the advice would just be to make sure that we're selling, we're willing to commit, or else you're not going to get that off-ramp that you were looking for, and maybe your time and your retirement was a little bit more valuable than winning at the negotiation table.
Randy Wilburn [24:31] Yeah. Now that you say that, it makes me think. I hope anybody listening to this understands that Zweig Group offers a wide variety of services in this area but if you must, the M&A Group ended up handing off a lot of clients that would probably be better suited working with the OT Group, the Ownership Transition Advisory Group there at Zweig. Is that the case?
Jamie Claire Kiser [24:55] Absolutely. We work back and forth on projects all the time or we go down one route as far as we can, and then we realize there's another opportunity that presents itself. But we defnitely go across the table on those transactions for internal and external ownership transitions. Defnitely. And also strategic planning too. Developing a long-term growth strategy with an end in mind. What are we trying to get to? Randy Wilburn 25:19] Yeah, which really leads me to realize that a lot of times when you say to a potential client that maybe now's not the best time. All that means is that it's not no for good, it's just right now, maybe you need to do some of these other things to sure up what you're doing and tighten up the infrastructure of your organization frst before you put it out on the block, and try to try to fnd the highest bidder. Because, again, people want companies that have mission vision values, have a goal, have a plan and that's why strategic planning is so important. I can see somebody being told no, not right now. It's just not no, forever, it's just not right now. And I think that's good to hear, as well, for some frm leaders that maybe it's time for them to kind
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