rate and this proftability. And, as we say in Arkansas, we just want to say bless your heart. Good luck fnding this many people your organic strategy of hiring is that you've got to really be realistic with what the growth rate can be in the space. It's not because we didn't know that we needed to hire. That isn't the challenge, and so I think that diagnosis is important too, and understanding the end markets and the actual risk associated with our space. And there is an educational component to being a good private equity buyer. And there are some private equity frms that do a great job with this and know what they don't know. It's a spreadsheet is a spreadsheet, but in an industry is a much more diffcult thing to wrap your arms around like you and I know. Randy Wilburn [21:32] And a lot of people that come into this industry think it's easy to ramp up and grow a group and get a bunch of people. My gosh, talent acquisition in the design industry, space is about as hard as it comes. It's just fnding good engineers, fnding good architects, great planners, surveyors, great landscape architects. They're out there, but it's not easy to get them. And that's one of the biggest challenges that design frms face right now. Jamie Claire Kiser [22:05] And understanding how different market sectors interact with the designers that are within that space also. I mean, that is a huge quirk of our industry, when you talk to somebody who's a land developer versus a forensic, you know, engineer, and kind of what they do and what their I guess, ability to grow, infuence fees, get their work done faster, change the contract structure. There are a lot of nuances there too. I know that this sounds obvious, and I know that the listeners are like, oh, my gosh, why are you telling me this. But if we're talking to people who don't know our space, and you want to achieve that kind of evaluation that you can get with a private equity partner, then it's mutual education. And it really should be that really came prepared with an explanation of how we do business and kind of what the growth potential is, and what the challenges are to that growth. I think, really, we can help each other kind of get there so that education is happening.
Randy Wilburn [22:56] Now with everything that we've just said and we've kind of painted a picture of what the M&A landscape looks like right now in the design industry space. Can you think of any reasons not to do an M&A at this point in time?
Jamie Claire Kiser [23:10] Well, yes. We talked to a lot of companies that maybe aren't. They need to navigate what they're selling versus the risk tolerance, right? Like, if you're going to come to the table with a huge backlog and great projections to justify a
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