people?” It turns out they are all martial arts kids. The leader of the group—who was all of seventeen years old, and their instructor—says, “We really like what you are doing.We want you to make a film with us.” Now, I wasn’t the same filmmaker I was a year ago when I made these movies they are watching, because, by now, I had discovered Super 8. So the idea was to make a “kung fu movie” on Super 8, reflecting everything going on in these kids’ community, and creating a narrative fantasy around it.
In the context of this exhibition and the art on the walls here today, I was wondering: Had you always been a painter?
Charlie Ahearn: The answer to that is I had always been an artist. I came to New York with the Whitney Museum’s Independent Study Program in 1973, and did these conceptual murals. I wouldn’t have made a painting back then like those in this exhibition.The art world in New York at that time was highly conceptual; painting was not really done. Artists were more interested in ways of thinking about art rather than actually doing it.
How did that narrative evolve?
These guys would do live shows in the community that would feature their martial arts but also tell stories similar to martial arts films of the day. As I’m watching these shows, I’m thinking,“OK, there’s a scene right there,” so I’m really cribbing everything they are doing.We only met on Saturdays at 10 a.m. because they are still at school. Every Saturday, I would buy them pizza and put it on the park bench.That way, people are gonna stick around. It’s going to attract people. I’m saying this to illustrate how DIY this all was.There was no exchange of money during the entire production of The Deadly Art of Survival . Now, this is Lee Quiñones’s neighborhood, and I have his murals in that movie. The Deadly Art of Survival starts with Howard the Duck as the opening pan shot right at the start of the movie.
At the time, what was your thinking about what art should be for?
There was a sense amongst the people that I hung out with that to be “street” was to be there and important.Anything art world-related was square, for squares. For us, it wasn’t discussions about art concepts that mattered; it was about getting your hands dirty. So, for example, The Times Square Show from June 1980 was organized by a group I was involved in called Colab.We were doggedly trying to work more collectively.
The Times Square Show became something of a milestone for graffiti art. Can you tell me a bit more about it?
Lee was a bit of an elusive figure back then, for obvious reasons. How did you come to work with him?
It was an exhibition held on three stories in Times Square. Nobody had thought of making an art exhibition out of Times Square.That was a place known for drug dealers, prostitutes, and peep shows.There was no art in Times Square. It was also a place for martial arts movies, so I was there all the time. I lived inTimes Square for two years before the show, so that was the place I wanted to be. It was like,“This is who I am.” The whole point of the show was going against the grain of what was expected, in every way possible.
So I was there in 1978 seeing that first mural on the Lower East Side, and filming it on my Super 8 and becoming fascinated by [the idea of] who created it. This young teenager came along with a big afro and saw that I was filming something around his mural. I said,“I really want to work with you. How do I get in touch?” He was on this scooter, and he said,“I’ll be around,” before tearing off, and he’s gone. Two years go by. I have no idea where he lives. I know he’s in the Lower East Side somewhere, but I have no idea where his house is. I have always wondered what would have happened if I had met him then.What kind of film would we have made? Talking to him since, I discovered he was obsessed with movies and had always wanted to get into making them. But, back then, he showed none of this interest to me.
Was Lee just being cool and young?
No, he thought the world was trying to capture him. He didn’t think I was a cop or anything, but he was generally gun-shy of anyone who takes interest in him. Because, to him, that is what cops do. Fab 5 Freddy became an essential figure in the making of Wild Style . I believe you met him for the first time at The Times Square Show .
Moving on to your filmmaking, I wanted to go back before Wild Style to The Deadly Art of Survival . How did that movie come to be made? At the time, I was going into communities and shooting things with my Bolex camera, and then showing the movies there. One time, these twelve young people come into the room—all around thirteen to fifteen years old—and take a seat. I was like, “Who are these
The painting right here [See page 86— Ed. ] shows that first meeting.
82 WaxPoetics
Made with FlippingBook - PDF hosting