Mark Graham Yeah. Well, just a quick point on that, is that for me, I was always deeply fascinated by the business of branding and marketing. And I knew that one of the opportunities in the promotional products industry was to create a distinguished brand because this is an industry that is somewhat commoditized. There's a ton of competition, barriers to entry to get into the business are low. I mean, look at a joker like me. I was able to get in work out of my parents' house when I was in my early twenties for literally no overhead. So I knew that the competitive landscape was extreme. And I knew that one of the opportunities that a small tiny guy like me had in this space was to create a unique and memorable brand. And that learning I've taken with me to this very day. Marshall Atkinson And when you're building your company, did you have a mentor? Did you read a lot of books? I mean, did you take some "how to sell" classes? I mean, what really pushed you? Mark Graham It's interesting... Bobby Lehew and I just recorded one of our commonsku podcasts just two weeks ago where we were talking about our early mentors. And I met a gentleman by the name of Barry Holtz, who sadly has recently passed away. And Barry was a promotional products veteran. He's sold his company and he had turned into the consulting business and he had a studio in Toronto where I think it was called the School for Promotional Marketing. And I signed up for it because I literally knew nothing. And I sat down with Barry and he taught me how the business works. He taught me all sorts of things about how to run a profitable business, how to run a responsible business, how to build culture, and I'm forever indebted to his expertise. And I think Marshall, you mentioned PromoKitchen -- it was my experience with people like Barry in the early days of my career. That motivated me to want to become a good mentor to other people in the industry so that I could help other people just like I was helped myself. Marshall Atkinson Yeah. If you've had success send the elevator back down to help other people out. Mark Graham
A hundred percent. Marshall Atkinson And during that time, did you, like -- you weren't happy with the software?
How do we make the leap right from selling branded stuff? And granted, you're doing a great job with it, but it's still branded stuff. I'm selling branded stuff too. You know what?
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