significant fines that have been occurring in Australia, because I think there are a number of different regimes under which those have been issued. And I think there’ll be helpful for us to set the scene as to why these are happening and why they’re such significant amounts of money. JN: Thanks, Nick. That’s the first time I’ve been called Yoda but you’re correct, there has been a very significant fine recently imposed. While it is attributable to a gambling sector fine, it is in fact, a breach of Australia’s money laundering or anti money laundering laws. It was imposed last month on Crown casino it was AUS$450 million as an agreed penalty between the prosecutor the anti money laundering regulator, Austrac and Crown Casino. It was signed off by the Federal Court as being reasonable in the circumstances and essentially, when you look at that, as a headline item, you think, well, where is the world heading? But even apart from the AML perspective, that’s actually fairly low in the Australian context, where there has also been a fine for AUS$1.2 billion imposed on one of the banks. In the gaming sector it is very significant, but it’s necessary to look at it by reference to it being anti money laundering rather than in respect of breaches of the gambling laws. Even though on the Australia’s statute books we have laws targeting online gambling, mostly in respect of parties offshore, the fines that can be imposed are AUS$11 million a day per offense. So you can see that that gives rise to very significant fines in a very short period of time, subject to one qualification, which we’re going to talk about. That is whether or not they can be enforced. And secondly, whether or not it’s actually worthwhile for them to be imposed. NN: The interesting question, before we get into how fines are calculated, etc. I think is a more general question about why is it that we are seeing significant increases in fines generally. Peter-Paul, do you have any views on that? P-PG: I think it’s a matter of inflation in a way, and the inflation is induced by a couple of factors. One of the factors that I see, and it was mentioned on the previous panel, is that in politics, lashing out at gambling operators is the right strategy, or at least in the eyes of the average politician. And I can’t escape the feeling that sometimes regulators feel that they are under public pressure to be really tough and, therefore, go for the maximum fine that is possible within the law. That’s probably the most important reason. And then the other effect, for the Netherlands at least, is that the number of operators that are under the regulatory oversight has gone up dramatically. Because we came from a monopoly situation with a couple of partially government-owned operators to a situation with I think 25 licensees today. Also, they’ve stepped up the fight against illegal gambling operators, which has an inflationary effect on the total number and size of fines. NN: Carl, do you have a view from a regulatory perspective? Would you agree with those observations? CB: First things first, big compliments on the title of the panel. I’m a big Star Wars fan so I love this. P-PG: I’m wondering who my father is. CG: But just to defend regulators in general, we are ultimately accountable to the politicians, to Parliament, to the general public, in terms of how we regulate. I’m not saying it’s a good idea, but if the pressure is there to be harsher on the industry, then lobbying the regulator isn’t going to have much effect because the regulator is accountable to the general public and needs to regulate in terms of the nation’s policy. We have to make a distinction based on what Jamie said as well: fines for AML-CFT breaches in Malta are imposed by the FIU; fines for gaming breaches are imposed by the MGA, the laws are very different, the maximum amount of the fine for AML-CFT is €1 million, the maximum amount under gaming law is only €25,000 per breach. And there is a specific reason for that, which if we have time I can explain but maybe later on. But in terms of why also, we do not generally regulate by imposing punitive fines, but rather as a compliance focused and a kind of hand holding to get our licensees to be compliant. Partly, it’s because that is the way we as the regulator feel we should do it. But we are empowered to do it also, because that is the general policy direction that there is in the country. I think one of the things that the industry needs to get better at is also explaining these things to the people who are making the decisions or setting these policy directions.
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