Conference proceedings, Zurich 2023

change. We have a media state treaty, that is regulating the media, also on state level, also involving 16 states. It’s in its the 26th version at the moment. We have a tradition of the association of broadcasters, together with experts on regulatory level, sitting in all stakeholders meetings and discussing in conferences together, what kind of changes are needed. In these difficult times of new media, there are a lot of problems, of course that have to be faced. That’s true. But you have to find at the end quality regulation and a common understanding of quality. If we achieve this in Germany, then I’m hopeful. QM: It’s interesting that you touched on lobbying as part of sound regulation because I fully agree that it is important to have more opportunities to get together with regulators. I’m from a country where the regulator, traditionally is not very approachable. But when I talk to my regulator, I am talking to someone that speaks my language. They know the business, whether or not they are willing to start a dialogue that’s another story, but they speak my language. The problem is that one floor up when I entered the ministry, that’s where I hit the wall, because I’m afraid to say, the vast majority of our politicians, no matter which passport they are holding, they do not speak our language. And until the industry finds a way, be it lobbying, be it education, to communicate better with the politicians we are in trouble. Because regulators are there to execute rules that they do not enact, at least in terms of primary legislation. And they can be very sympathetic and approachable but the problem is how do we make sure that we can deliver sound regulations, sustainable regulations, if those guys do not know what they’re talking about? Now, talking about lobbying. Obviously, the UK has a track record in terms of open transparent lobbying something that in countries like mine or other continental Europe, countries, when you mentioned lobbying people, especially civil servants immediately go on the defensive. I would like to ask David, have the industry associations, the lobbying groups, etc, managed to find the right way to interact with the legislator and the regulator in an effort to find a better world together? DZ: The short answer is no, but I’ll expand on that. Firstly, your points about the regulator talking the same language when you have conversations with them. On the previous panel, Joe asked Birgitte in the context of the Irish just having appointed someone with no gambling background and whether she thought that was a problem. She was very clear, saying no. She meets lots of regulators, very few of them have a gambling background and that doesn’t stop them doing a good job. I have to say, most of the people at the UK Gambling Commission don’t generally speak the same language. And they’re not very open to conversations. So lobbying is, as you put it for the floor above. The UK gambling industry up until 10-12 years ago, was very good at lobbying. And, in particular, Ladbrokes, who were then the main gambling operator, had a very effective lobbying machine. But over the last few years, that’s completely disappeared. And there’s been a very effective anti-gambling lobby and too often, the gambling companies have been more concerned about how will this affect my competitive position against the other gambling operators. And they’re not thinking what would be for the best of the whole industry. The other thing, and I think Jason said this in the very first session, and the problem that we all have with gambling industry, is that most people who gamble, don’t experience any problems, and they get a level of enjoyment from it. So you’ve got a large number of people getting a small amount of enjoyment, then a very few people who suffer serious harm. From a political perspective, the focus is always on those few people who suffer serious harm. But increasingly over the past few years, the regulation has focused on those few people. And so I think some of the measures that are introduced have become disproportionate to the harm that has been suffered. But from a lobbying perspective, in the UK, in the floor up there, all of the political parties at the last general election were saying gambling legislation must be reformed. So I don’t really hold out much hope from a UK perspective. QM: Santi give us some words of hope. Please, SA: When it’s about gaming trade associations in Spain, they are limited. But let me say one thing. You mentioned, you’re going to visit the Italian regulator and you speak the same language then when you go the higher floor, it becomes difficult because they have no clue. But it should be the other way around. If you think about it, it should

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