Case: 25-1922 Document: 83 Page: 23 Date Filed: 09/24/2025
Page 22
1 of the CFTC. The chaos that Congress wanted to avoid when
2 it -- when it created the exclusive jurisdiction provision and
3 created the CFTC.
4
JUDGE CHAGARES: What are some kinds of sports betting
5 that would not fall within your definition of swap?
6
MR. HAVEMANN: I think that there are probably certain
7 player props that would not have, you know, sufficient economic
8 consequences to fit within the definition.
9
JUDGE CHAGARES: But like if Judge Porter challenged
10 me to ping pong, which he would destroy me, but that you could
11 vote -- but the clerks might be interested in voting on that
12 one. Go with him, he'd beat me.
13
MR. HAVEMANN: Yeah, I think, Your Honor, if it's --
14 if it's a game between two, two people without extrinsic
15 consequences. So it may be very consequential to you both, but
16 not sort of financial extrinsic consequences in the world, then
17 I think they sort of say, well, a raffle or a bet on a, a
18 little league game or the like, and nothing of the sort would
19 be a swap.
20
JUDGE CHAGARES: Well, it does have to impact
21 economics, right?
22
MR. HAVEMANN: Right.
23
JUDGE CHAGARES: Okay. So that wouldn't. I mean, you
24 pointed out the Super Bowl. All right. That's going to have
25 the Eagles win the Super Bowl or the Steelers, for that matter.
Veritext Legal Solutions 215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
Made with FlippingBook - Online catalogs